Beating up a 17-year-old girl for plastics

Thanks, but I've still been reduced to challenging 17 year olds. You've probably lost all hope of winning the arguement if that's what you're reduced to. It shouldn't have had to come to this. The Post Dispatch must be desperate for free column inches if they are willing to publish the opinions of 17 year olds. When I was 17 (it was a very good year), if I expressed an opinion I think it was shortly thereafter dismissed, rightly so. I didn't know squat about squat.

Some blame needs to be placed on our industry though for not attacking these baseless opinions head on. What I wrote was too little too late.

Next time, try and find an employee (or yourself) with a 17 year old student. Have that student write a riposte, using facts and science provided by yourself. That way, it's not a "big bad" industry-type beating up a "harmless" school project, but it's a debate between 17 year olds.

A 17-yr old is just starting to feel responsibility for the society and world we live in, but this must be tempered by real information and logical debate. I'm sure this young lady has never been presented information other than, "Plastic is bad for the environment." So, I can't blame her for believing as she does. But, she does need to get a real counter point, preferably from a peer or educator.

Those who actually pay attention might learn something from the debate, and the common problem of better recycling and waste management can come into discussion - not just baseless, biased tripe you get from earth-or-nothing environmental types, or from thumb-their-nose-at-green industry types.

It is so very obvious that the entire environmental movement, backed by the current federal government, is trying to destroy the American economy - something it sees as totally evil. And with the nonsense being taught in American schools today, they are off to a resounding start.

If things stay on their current course, you will see the plastics industry go away as well as a lot of other businesses. You will also see unemployment the like not seen since the great depression, and maybe even worse than that.

If that is not enough to fight, I don't know what reason one would need.

We are in trouble - deep deep trouble.

Wait! I have a better solution!
Why not enforce our current laws on littering.
Why not raise the fine for littering and even make it a state or federal crime and give jail time to repeat offenders.

People are the problem, not plastics. Plastics can be recycled and reused. The industry has gone the wrong direction in making bags degradable. This sends the wrong message, a message that it is ok to litter because the plastic will degrade.

Recycle, reuse and reinforce litter laws is the direction we need to go.

What I find most disturbing about the whole debate about plastic bags is the mis-direction of effort.

Plastic bags are a miniscule, but highly visible and unsightly, component of pollution. Banning plastic bags is a bit like switching to compact fluorescent light bulbs, i.e. a feel good exercise, with little benefit and a long pay back period.

Environmental organizations, such as Save the Bay, might better spend their time and energy campaigning to reduce the number of miles people drive in their cars or even population control.

I couldn't resist this one, especially as it supports my call for a study of WHY people like this student (and their teachers and so many others) have it in for plastic bags and plastics in general.
I agree with Longstreth, of course, especially with his comments on bans, and share his exasperation, but am afraid his negativity will turn off the people we want to turn on. "The 1jeffy" sees this.
Why doesn't SPI or ACC or anyone try to talk to/with the Interschool Ecological Council, as a start? I once told SPI I'd go anywhere in the US/Canada to talk with anyone, no fee, but Mr Cartwright didn't even give me the courtesy of a reply, despite my 46-year history as a professional member. We don't have a coach and strategist for our "truth team," maybe because we're too busy scrambling to stay in business.
As for Mr Fox' comments, I see where he's coming from but don't agree where he wants to go to. His viewpoint is as extreme as the junk-science that fuels the misguided students. Until we see and deal with what is driving the feelings, ours as well as theirs, we can't fully understand the problem.
We may see a lot more unemployment, and we are indeed in trouble, but it's not because of the environmental movement, nor even this current government. I'll leave it to the readers to place the blame where they think it might belong. And the plastic sky is not falling; more likely it will be one of the saviors.
ALG

Sam is correct in his assessment of the applicable knowledge level of Miss Godar. Though, whether or not she had taken chemistry is somewhat irrelevant. Assuming there are responsible and suitably educated instructors at her institute of higher learning, her argument should never had gotten past the thought stage. Are the inmates running the asylum? Where are the elements of responsibility and due diligence? Are these not part of the everyday education culture? Shouldn’t they be?
If this is any measure of the foresight of this particular school board, or the edification content of the countries institutions’ in general, it’s no wonder the battle is becoming increasingly difficult.
We all need a ‘whack on the side of the head’ if there is to be a reasonable and successful resolution to this complicated issue. Fact-based education first and a target for a thorough and vigorous recycling program second.

Newspapers publish comments of 17 year olds in part to prop up their own liberal positions and to make the 17 year old "feel good" and assuage her ego. Good luck trying to get a major metropolitan daily newspaper to listen to logic. That's about as nasty an enemy as the plastic bag itself. Incidentally, the real fun with The Great Plastic Bag Debate is in the check-out lane of natural or organic food markets. It's where I've had the most fun, at any rate.

The problem, as noted by Mr. Longstreth (whose response was totally appropriate), is at the education level. Students don't make this up - this is what is being taught to them.

Liz Godar's 2nd paragraph is totally contradictory and inaccurate. “Toxic petro-polymers?” Is this before or after 500 years time? (Tongue in cheek comment)

As far as the recycling data, I would be suspicious of any report coming out of San Francisco. I also wonder where the "Plastic bags account for 10 percent of the waste " data comes from.

In our municipality, household and industrial trash – including plastics – is 100% recycled via the solid waste to electricity incinerator. I had (probably still have) a document from the 1980s on a study that showed how many BTUs were generated by plastics incineration: more than the amount of energy that it took to create the plastic item to begin with. So, in essence, the plastic was "free". They won't publish that any more. I asked why in a recent tour - because it would be challenged by environmentalists unless the information was irrefutable. They decided it was best to just not comment at all. Meanwhile, it is OK to attack plastics with reckless abandon.

Plastic bags as litter are a definite problem, but banning their use is not a solution. The alternatives could very well be worse.

* Paper, for example, is not necessarily environmentally-preferable just because it comes from a sustainably-harvested forest. Other important environmental issues in the paper-making process, including energy, greenhouse gas emissions, and water and air pollution, may be equally or more significant ( * source: sinsofgreenwashing.org )

I am very much an environmentalist, but fully realize that industry needs a place, too. It seems that the world always needs a scapegoat or villain, and in this case, it’s plastic bags. Plastic has been under attack for years and our industry is often slow to respond.

When the “Plastic or Paper?” question became common in supermarkets, I often heard “Well, paper, of course!” Several times I questioned the patron, asking them if they could tell me what resource they were saving. Aside from the generic “it’s better for the environment” (which I then asked them to define HOW it was better for the environment), I never heard a logical or factual answer.

I am going to call Sam Longstreth and ask him what is his favorite bottle of adult beverage. I've made a good living for the last 27 years selling plastic bags and do not plan on changing careers because a small faction of the public think plastic bags are harmful. In fact, if you did a real case study on the benefits of "plastic bags", you'd find that the advantages and the cost savings created with innovative PE packaging has saved buyers millions and millions of dollars.

Plastic grocery sacks are about $ 12.00 per thousand and a comparable paper bag runs close to $ 60.00 per thousand, something the liberal tree huggers never consider...speaking of tree huggers, we don't cut down trees to make plastics bags only the paper bag boys do that.

It seems to me that young Ms. Godar is a prime example -- in miniature -- of our clueless government and the segment of our society that keeps re-electing them because she, like them, never takes the time to look deeper at a problem to come up with a common sense, educated and beneficial solution. Instead, go with what the popular mantra's are (so as not to offend anyone, of course) and watch the country and our industry go to the dogs while they scratch their heads or point to some ridiculous but convenient scapegoat.

The poor girl, like most kids in her age group, is growing up espousing the "ideals" the media, celebrities and her teachers are presenting to her. Others who commented here are right - this industry should stand up for itself, and I mean all areas of plastics, and we should lobby with votes and educate teens on up to our government.

Good article and comments! People like this young girl do not understand that the alternatives are very costly in their use of energy and natural resources, can be more polluting, and financially more costly.

Unfortunately nobody ever sees these numbers. Schools should also teach critical thinking skills - Liz Godar seems like a bright girl, she should find out the other side of the story (hint, Liz, there's always another side!)

Plastic bags don't kill Dolphins!

Careless people kill Dolphins!

Oh, and sharks. Sharks eat Dolphns.

Seriously, it would be interesting to study the history of the debate raging over plastic bags. With so many vexing environmental issues facing the world today, how did the plastic shopping sack become the root of all environmental evil or at least the symbol for it? This issue has really caught fire again and I'm afraid that all of us in the flexible packaging business are going to get burned before the fire is out.

you guys are acting pathetic. plastic is obviously bad for society or we wouldn't live in a world with such a horrible environment today... the guys only saying this response to save his precious company some embarrassment (and doing a horrible job since he's unprofessionally and immaturely attacking a high school student) he should've minded his own business because liz wasn't going after his she was just confronting a major environmental issue our world has to face.